Episode 102 | Govind Das | Turning the Mind Into an Altar to God

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(00:00) foreign [Music] thanks so much for uh taking the time to do this and and really everything that you did here at yogaville uh I guess maybe is a few months or a few weeks ago or a month ago now uh I enjoyed the sessions with you immensely uh and I took some notes during the sessions which uh helps me with the questions I want to ask you and you know one of the things that you said which I've really heard someone say before he said simply my mind is crazy I don't know about you you know uh but my mind is crazy and that actually just
(00:48) felt so good to hear someone say that honestly to me it's like uh yeah that's true my mind is crazy your mind's crazy too you got one now yeah I mean whose mind isn't crazy that's the isn't that the Human Condition it's what gets us in all of our trouble yeah yeah but the relationship with the mind right is uh essential I mean I'm very interested in what is it what does it mean to um have a healthy mind right health healthy relationship with my mind with my thoughts I love it brother that's a great
(01:28) conversation and uh look I think it's one of these um your mind is is either your best friend or your worst enemy it's it's a it's a powerful instrument if it's taken care of and used properly and yet on the other side of the coin it can if unattended to and just let um go wherever it wants to go it can lead us into some really dark places and what is the prescription that SRI Krishna gives to us in bhagavad-gita yoga right this is how we cultivate Focus Equanimity balance and um you know something that I
(02:16) just has been coming through the last few years is turning our mind into an altar to God foreign which for me what that means is and this is a very I think bhakti-based way of looking at using the mind as an instrument is at any moment being able to turn the Mind into um as I said as an altar pointing towards the Divine which means you can um conjure up the image of your Guru or your ishtidevata at any moment and we know as is our mind so we become right I mean even Buddha taught this as is our mind so it becomes our world so
(03:18) if we can turn our minds into an altar to God my belief is that this is the highest way that we can use our minds ramakrishna he said maybe you've heard of this this great quote he says the mind is a terrible Master but a wonderful servant foreign Anda says the mind when the mind is focused in the right direction All Things become possible in your life for me I turn my mind into an altered God which means I'm always thinking about the stories of honoma I'm a visualizing images of Hanuman and Krishna and my Guru
(04:18) I'm using the mind as a as a tool to practice these great qualities like humility humility when the mind is focused in the right direction all things are possible and to me I hear that my mind when my mind is turned towards God towards the self towards love towards truth that's what I take from that teaching from Swami shivamanda any thoughts yeah well it feels important to consider you know what is the right direction okay I want to turn my mind in the right direction now what what is that you know
(05:24) the truth my Guru humility how do I know that that is the right direction what inside myself is letting me know that that is the right direction what do you think about that I think it there exists this knowing this knowing um and the the word that I could use that gets me as close to it as possible is appropriate what is the appropriate response to this
(06:29) situation that I'm in of being alive um yeah what is the appropriate response and and so then then truth comes up yes to be interested in what is true I mean that's appropriate to be grateful for this experience that's definitely appropriate feels appropriate so it's like something in in myself that's like rebounding I think and saying yes that's right and and then it's like what's in between me and using my mind in the right kind of way you know okay so identify a few things that
(07:17) I want to keep coming back to again I want to spend my time in in love in gratitude in truth with my Guru why do I leave that place and that other place that I go to which is not those things maybe it's caught in my personality my identity ego what is my relationship with that yeah and why is it so strong yeah well left unattended to my mind becomes very scattered selfish me me me me me me me me me me everything is revolved around me
(08:23) as we start to pay attention to this and recognize that this is our unconscious tendencies we can then begin to guide and plant seeds to our to intentionally focusing on love service devotion Guru truth and I think that this is what the whole yogic tradition is about is working with our minds because the heart Spirit soul is love it's it's who we are the I'm not talking our emotional heart but our spiritual self that lives and resides in the heart it's the mind and there's I think that's what we need to keep coming back to is
(09:26) ramakrishna's teaching if I'm just living and leading from my mind it's a terrible Master it's going to lead me into really um for me as I've seen too many times awful situations because it's always about it's self-serving it's selfish so if we can like Hanuman turn our minds in the direction of service and turn into our minds in the direction of our hearts and these great spiritual qualities the mind can then become a great instrument through which we can begin to live our lives in a good
(10:11) way in service in humility in love in courage in strength in alignment with the higher source and a way that we truly will live in our lives yeah but I'm wondering too like how subtle it is because my my relationship with that aspect of myself that is all is selfish me me me and I'm scared and I'm afraid I wonder if making that part of me wrong or bad is another trap to fall into and that cultivating this relationship with that part of myself is an essential part of kind of you know tending the garden
(11:05) of the mind and working towards you know making it a good servant for my higher self you mean your relationship with these thoughts instead of pushing them away what would you do with them these selfish thoughts lustful thoughts desirous thoughts right like if they're coming up and then I'm feeling Shame about them yeah then I'm kind of like I'm avoiding it you know suppressing and that from my experience is um not really what the path is about either that's um that's another Danger yeah I agree too
(11:49) I think that's you have to love all parts of ourselves including those crazy parts of our own mind I do agree with that but yet I also feel like we cannot leave those um places and parts of ourselves to guide Our Lives that's why we practice restraint in yoga that's why we practice discipline and yoga that's why we practice daughter now in yoga focus and concentration so that we may be able to choose our perceptions on a more refined and subtle way um and fill the content of our minds with the teachings of bhagavad-gita the
(12:42) stories of RAM and Krishna and divine mother and so our mind that's what I mean by turning our minds into an altar to God so yes I think we need to embrace and love every part of ourselves because the shame I think will only dig us deeper and deeper into a dark hole but I don't think we let the mind take us wherever it wants to go I don't think that's what love is and I don't think I think that our I I know I just said these two words restraint and discipline are two primary aspects of of really
(13:41) what spiritual life is all about and it's it's I think and what comes with that restraint and that discipline is the ability to choose a new Direction and to choose a direction in which we want our minds to flow and as Swami shivananda said when the mind is pointed in the right direction All Things become possible so that's what I get from this yeah I think this is so great because it's like really getting into that um the the practice the way it's it it feels like it's an art form of dealing with something like
(14:27) discipline and restraint with myself um when it when When Love is brought to it that discipline and that restraint it feels like it to me what I'm getting is it feels like it becomes an art form and it's not just these hard edges and hard walls we're putting up a word that's uh that's become really important to me and and it's coming up uh during this conversation is priority what I feel is that it's like essential for the mind what the Mind needs is to know clearly what are my priorities
(15:11) and that's discipline is is getting clear on that okay my my priority is you know to rest the mind to spend time in love all all of these things these are these are my priority and when it's clear on that now it's much easier to just okay I noticed that selfish fearful tendency come up that's not one of my priorities so because I'm clear on that I can let it go and redirect the mind back to my priorities whatever they are so it's like have you noticed with yourself like over time over the years
(15:53) that your priorities have changed and there has been uh like a Clarity that's emerged regarding what are my priorities where do I want to spend my time absolutely I truly believe you know I think it happens very quickly in a sense when people just begin yoga practice where they start meditating or they start chanting that the things that were previously working because naturally we become a little bit more sensitive to everything so the things that were were maybe working in the past suddenly feel like they're not working anymore
(16:44) I know for myself of even friendships or relationships that were previously working I had to create some space from because I had to tend to this inner Garden it was the soil was was so um just ripe and fresh and ready for the sprouting of of new seeds so we had I feel like we have to protect that but as we keep going and walking forward on the path for myself you know [Music] I still feel extremely sensitive yet my practices Baba one of his famous sayings is love everyone maybe for ROM they'll say love everyone
(17:39) love everything so you know as we anchor deeper and deeper into this what could we call it this this new way of living this new um Paradigm this new way of perceiving the world when we start to wake up and feel God's presence in everyone and everything um again for me it's it's it's become more about service how can I serve instead of what's in it for me for me for me for me and and believe me I'm so far from perfect at at this but this Karma Yoga The Yoga of action the highest form of action as Krishna
(18:30) tells us is selfless service based action and this kind of action does not accrue new Karma With It so for me that's what I'm prioritizing not so much what's in it for me all the time me what what can I get how much money can I make how good do I look but more so how can I do my part to to make this world a better place how can I be an uplifting presence on this planet during this time so those for me are the things that have taken priority through the years how have you gained clarity around that around service around Karma
(19:27) Yoga what what about your life has taught you that that is the appropriate place to focus on you know I follow this path of Hanuman bhakti and Hanuman is the servant of Lord Rama and there are many even in the Hanuman Chalisa there's many lines promises that tulsidas gives to us that when you remember Hanuman and thought word and deed that all Affliction dissolves and I can just say that that when I am acting from that place of me me me me me me it feels like I'm putting myself in a deeper and bigger jail so
(20:25) and that jail cell is my own ego I'm stroking my my own ego when I live from my heart and I live from service and and kindness and less of me and More Of Thee and less drama and more drama that it feels like the gates of the the jail cell opens and I can come out and and live in the Oneness and beauty of life and celebrate in the beauty of life and recognize the gift and the miracle that life is when I'm in my mind and I'm in my ego it's it's it the veil is too thick I can't come out they can't recognize the spaciousness
(21:26) that exists in each moment I can't breathe so we have to continually as ramadas would say extricate our awareness out of our thinking mind because when we're in our thinking mind we're trying to think our way through life where the the thinking mind the ego in its form of the thinking mind when it's when we're living from that place it's it's very manipulative and isn't concerned about others it's just me me and fulfilling my own desires so I'm always trying to take this leap
(22:19) of faith from here to here we call it the group The the biggest 18 inch jump you'll ever have to make it in your whole life from here to here the leap of faith instead of living from here living from here because from here I can't love everyone when I'm in my ego what do I do I judge everyone or I hate everyone or I compete with everyone or I'm afraid that someone's better than me or I'm happy because they're worse than me I'm always trying to engage my own power over things in people
(23:10) from here when we can begin to rest in our hearts wisdom and awareness and soul can love everyone I can live in service I can practice and be kind but it's so important my spiritual path is just constantly coming from here back down to here it occurs to me that it might be pretty scary though I mean speaking for myself it it is I mean I I hear what you're saying I deeply agree with everything that you're saying and at the same time this practice is not so easy I think and specifically why I think it's
(24:07) because forming any new habit or new practices is not an easy thing because there seems to be something within the human experience that attaches to what's comfortable and what's comfortable is being more in that state for many of us that you're referring to of not love and giving but fear and competition and um I need to make sure that I have enough for me and my family scarcity mentality you know all of them just operating from that place that that place is is my survival and to to let that go is no small thing
(24:50) to give it up so because we've been conditioning our whole life to believe that that's who we really are and that's what's real and that's what's true but the next level of that as we drop down deeper into our heart and now we started to get more deeper into this bhakti base philosophy and way of living is that in the heart we live from here we can have real faith and trust and live fully Iraq that God's always taken care of me they the spirit puts me in the perfect place perfect time perfect moment always and
(25:30) in all ways and yes to live like that I think takes a tremendous amount of courage and strength it's so different so different yeah the other way and I think it really calls for for leadership because what's really scary and what's really holding me back is that I won't be included with the community with the Sangha if I don't take myself really seriously really play into this Persona I'll give you an example that happened to me uh yesterday [Music] um I have a four-year-old daughter and uh I
(26:21) was taking her to swimming lessons and after the lessons were over there's a bathroom to get changed in and I took her to the to the bathroom and there was a mom standing outside the men's room and she said oh I don't think you want to go in there I said why I said my son's in there getting changed and I said oh that's okay you know we'll go into one of the Stalls and she said well she doesn't want to see that meeting my daughter my four-year-old daughter she doesn't want to see that
(26:58) meaning her naked son right and something in that moment like my heart broke and I've been really thinking about this honestly because like what are you talking about this is a four-year-old they don't have this relationship with with the body that that we do as as adults like she would never like think I don't want to see that or it's not okay and I just saw how strong the indoctrination is from a very early age into because what does that mean you know with that but with with the body it's taking my body so seriously this
(27:39) Persona so seriously that I'm afraid if anyone sees Who I Really Am the natural me um and so much so that it's not even normally conscious that we're playing this game it's really unopen this is just what we do this is the this is the collective you know um and so to move to a different space of existence where I'm not operating in that place anymore um I think the real obstacle might be is the fear of not being included in the community anymore and that's why I say that it might really take
(28:21) leadership as much as anything else and courage I agree and I think there's two words it's it's just let go you just have to let go we have to let go we have to take that leap and and Trust more and more deeply that that God Source Voodoo Spirit Ram Krishna Divine mother Allah Jesus Adonai many names but that that source and force of love is omnipresent it's always here and if we can have that faith and have that trust even though the world is not operating from that place I think you know that's what
(29:16) makes this path of yoga so special and so sacred it is that it gives us another way where we don't have to live with so much suffering we're not buying into the stories of our own anxiety and scarcity mentality and so yoga here's another way here's another path that you can live and walk through and for me it just it intuitively feels right it feels like the path to walk in in my life the other way I and it may be because I've just I've experienced the suffering that comes with it so much
(30:08) yeah the suffering of not trusting how painful that is the suffering that comes when we're away from God when we're separated from God this is what bhakti is all about this is the gopis of in in vrindavan that separation from Krishna was the fuel for their longing for their for their devotion to be back with their beloved one and these gopis they're considered the masters of bhakti yoga because their longing was so strong to be with SRI Krishna I think it's interesting to explore the idea of of purpose or Dharma
(31:04) um because what I found when I asked people about you know what is your life's purpose I think ultimately we all get to the same answer and that is service so exploring this question leads leads me to gain clarity around this this this topic and it's so amazing right it's like oh it's like coming home it's like duh like what else is there that makes sense for me to do then try to do some good in the world and what's essential is that each of us gets to choose what that good is what that looks like doesn't work if I try to
(31:49) tell you what kind of good you're supposed to do in the world no we each get to decide what's my calling but the similarity is is they all contain that desire of service to do something good [Music] um I I agree with you wholeheartedly and you know the what what's the aim of Life why are we here these are these perennial questions that humans have always asked what is this human Incarnation all about is it really the one with the most toys wins the nicest car the bigger home no you can't take your toys to the
(32:39) graveyard you can't take your your money to the graveyard so it can't be that so there has to be a deeper purpose for life and I think the winning the winning is when the heart feels good that's the real winning right yes and you said it it's it's it's to do good in the world and everybody will find that calling in their own way you know for you maybe it's the it's teaching yoga or teaching teacher training or uh sharing these podcasts this is one way you can bring the good out into the world
(33:27) in service and what do you have to say about you know someone who says what what can I do you know I'm just I'm just one person that there's too many problems too many issues in the world it's it's too big for me why should I even bother with any of it the world is always the world and the always world has always been the world and the world is is duality of light and dark it's the dance of of light and Shadow but we have to still keep trying do what we can do to make make the world a better place
(34:16) I really believe that some people's you know calling is through social action some people's calling is through being a school teacher and working with kids you know but it's that that giving of your heart to something that you believe to be true for me that's what makes all the difference and you start to feel purpose in your life you said this word purpose and I really believe and I've seen myself when I don't feel purpose in my life like I'm working towards something to bring good I get depressed
(35:02) so I've singularly examined and seen that when I don't have purpose I go into depression so I know for me the importance of staying focused on things that I feel really passionate about and keep creating in the world so for me this this word purpose as you said I think it's it's such a key and important you know concept that we we all need to be focused on there's no question it's the same for me you know when I feel depressed when I when I don't have that yeah and I think it's the case for a great many humans
(35:49) right now um that is the the depression is feeling useless or feeling like my life you know it doesn't matter um that's really hard I think that from that that the my belief and now I have no idea I I'm not a scientist but I believe and have Eric should say I've experienced myself that when I don't have that purpose my the strength of my immune system comes down and then I'm more apt to experience inflammation in my body or other kinds of symptoms and illness so I think this this the sense of
(36:40) purpose is we cannot emphasize it enough the importance of I wonder too can my focus be on simply making this vessel this being um as optimal as it can possibly be like just work essentially just like working on myself I wonder if I can come at it the other direction too right with a belief that if I do that if I focus on constantly being aware and just working on the inner world that the external effect is going to take care of itself that by doing that that yeah good I was just gonna say this is one of my favorite quotes from ramdas
(37:28) and I know we share a love around us together he said the greatest thing that you can offer to the world the greatest service you can offer to the world is to work on your sins so to me that you know that sounds right yeah yeah and and so along the same lines I think he also says you know um the best thing you can do for me is work on on you and the best thing I can do for you is work on me yes and that feels so true to me and what I love about that is that it's so simple yeah that's so simple if I don't know
(38:09) externally what my calling is um to do what I can start doing right now is working on myself right there's no situation where I can't start that work immediately and what is that if I ask you what is working on yourself what is maybe we for people that are listening if they don't know what this means what is what is working on yourself that's beautiful I love to ask that question and that is great I mean I would take it back to what we were speaking about earlier in terms of priority getting clear on
(38:46) what my priorities are that is working on myself but what if what if somebody that is new to the spiritual path prior my priority is is being um is is making a million dollars yes I think our priorities are relative to where we are in our own Spiritual Development yeah but but I mean my priority in the inner world yeah you understand like how do I want to feel yeah where do I want my mind to be spending time yes right and then spending time in those places that's working on myself right like every single time I see that
(39:37) I get caught in um anger competition jealousy all of that every single time any of those things states of being that I don't want to be in every single time first that I just notice that I'm there just even then the noticing itself I would say is doing the work right and then more of the work beyond the noticing okay this is how I do it I accept it it's not wrong and I want to come back to my Mantra essentially whatever it is those higher priorities that I have and every time that I returned and then I spend time in
(40:18) that space of Love or gratitude or whatever it is that's doing the work and simply throughout the day however many times I can do that more times the better the more work that's done yeah I agree and I think a lot of of for me I I ask myself is that same question and it feels to me Examining my mind and the questioning the my own stories of what I believe to be true and recognizing that some of these stories that I believe to be true are delusional that they are just an expansion of my own egos dream so that letting go and centering back
(41:17) in Equanimity again and again and again and again and again a lot of self-inquiry right working on ourselves a lot of things that's it and contemplating our actions and our thoughts and our words and a lot of restraint and discipline and and conscious Choice making yeah the word honesty feels really important in all of this you know can I can I be really honest with myself about what's happening yeah and I think that the difficulty is when we see things about ourselves that that we when we see we're being
(42:12) manipulative or [Music] um shaming or projecting how we can turn back Inward and and begin to you know recognize that I love that like you had said at the beginning be kind to that instead of Shame ourselves we hold ourselves in loving compassion and recognize you're not perfect so that's acceptance and yet moving forward and choosing new behaviors thoughts words actions I love what you said the spiritual
(43:19) journey can be summed up with two words let go let go yeah what are we letting go of when we say let go let go of first of all let go of who I think I am hmm as this body as these thoughts as these emotions that's not really who I am who I am as a spirit Spirit soul let go of how for me I think the big part of letting go is letting go of how I think things should be so letting go of control yes and I think that gets us back into let go and let God right maybe you've heard that before oh yeah let God's will
(44:14) let go of our own agendas of every moment trying to manipulate everything so it looks exactly the way I want it and everybody behaves exactly the way I want them to and if they don't I have to go the other way or I can't be friends with them anymore because they challenge my agendas let go of my opinions that's humility that's that's right there the humility is like what do I know I think I'm on the speck of dust yeah that's the clinging of the the tightness my opinions yeah my opinions and my preferences
(44:59) I remember Ramada saying this quote from I think the dalte Ching that for the one who has no preferences life becomes very simple something it's not the exact words that rhyme Das used to say but something like that but I I understand that and not have preferences wow yeah because I think this is right and I think this is right and I think this is right krsna speaks in the bhagavad-gita's just the ability to take life as it comes moment it's a moment to moment to moment that's exciting to me to live like that
(45:45) is really exciting to try to control everything to me is is seems so boring I want to live like that painful painful closed yeah I think about the the fear of the the unknown being an obstacle in my ability to to do this to to let go it's like isn't it isn't that why we cling because we're afraid of of the mystery that lies ahead yeah yeah on a very basic level it's like the the practice too is like letting go of the fear because I think like the fear can be is is really like in all of those other things yeah you know so again okay
(46:48) the fear arises fear is acceptable and now I can let the fear go and Trust again let me remind you saying that reminds me of um she says there's only two energies in the universe love and fear love and fear love and fear and the love is kind of was talking about before I think the love can even pervade the fear and this is so important right like okay it's normal it's to be afraid this is this is a crazy situation that we were all born into you know existing on this planet you know hurling through space and nature can
(47:35) come in and and death can just like like that that's the reality of the situation so and running away from the truth doesn't seem to serve so I want to embrace it and do what I can uh with the truth you know I you what there's this theme I think in this conversation that keeps coming up is compassion through ourselves and Jack cornfield the meditation teacher says compassion if we don't have compassion for ourselves is not true compassion so I think we must be compassionate for ourselves that we're going to get really
(48:22) really stuck at times we're going to get really lost in our own minds and our own Illusions and delusions we're gonna get you know it's just part of The Human Experience that's why we're here and I think that's why ROM does he's always said you can't get phony holy you're human try practicing practice Being Human allow yourself to be human so I love this this teaching like honor your humanness and honor your Divinity as well too that they both have to be they both have to coexist at the same
(49:01) time and we're gonna you know make a lot of less than optimal choices that come from our very human place in our lives inside of us and and we have to learn how to be compassionate with ourselves and and forgiving with ourselves I think that's a big one too what he says that I just love so much never heard someone say this before is you know can I hold two things in my hands at the same time right can I look up and I kind of look down so you know both experiences one of having deep compassion for myself that
(49:44) this experience is really confusing and tricky and difficult in a lot of ways and it's also miraculous and fun and amazing and so beautiful right both of these things seem appropriate and true and can they both be true I don't see why not I agree I agree one foot in the world and one foot in spirit yeah we have to walk with both at the same time yeah and I I try to check myself a lot you know like oh am I not like I wanted feel well balanced right like how much time am I spending looking up and how much time am I spending looking down and
(50:39) I I know that I I have like a a tendency to um not want to look at the horror of the world a lot of times I I want to avoid it because it's so hard to to look and see that but that I do feel that it is appropriate to spend some time there right I don't want to be there all the time either but some of the time to look and see that and that that in a way motivates me I think too potentially yeah I can see how that was motivated motivates our motivates us to live you know with that higher purpose and do really engage ourselves
(51:28) yeah this is a this is a wild day that's where whereas it sure is well it's truly a blessing to come in contact with someone like you um I really I had unbelievable experiences during the sessions with you when you were here um so thank you and I I just know that all of that is a result it's a ripple effect of the inner work that you're doing with yourself there's no doubt in my mind uh of that so thank you for doing that work um [Music] very very much the same with yourself I'm really appreciate you and everything
(52:10) that you're doing and everything at yogazoo and integral yoga and Swami such a denanda and it's a very very close to my heart yeah uh well I hope to see you again soon if people are interested in um connecting with you more I don't know if are you offering anything coming up um just anything that people might want to know about if if they're wanting more govind to us yeah well we got some great things coming up this uh fall November over Thanksgiving I'm going to be leading an India retreat
(52:49) every year I take a group of people on a basically a bhakti based India Retreat where we visit temples and sing kirtan and be with Mother ganga and go visit vrndav in the land of Radha and Krishna and uh meet great Saints and holy beings and it's really really special so if anybody's interested you can go to our website which is bhakti Yoga Shala um bhakti yogashala.
(53:22) com and we got I'm going to be doing uh I live in outside of Los Angeles we do a lot of events here regularly weekly I'm gonna be doing a northern California tour kirtan tour coming up in August and we're gonna make a stop at integral yoga ashram up there in San Francisco and also will be a bhakti fast in uh September 15 through 18th and God blessed is a festival in in Joshua Tree California Joshua Tree okay that's a fabulous Festival four days ago so much music Krypton meditation workshops very very special okay we
(54:12) didn't really get into kirtan uh during this conversation we were thinking about adding the the music piece into this but uh how about if people want to hear some of your cure time yeah just go to Spotify type in govindas and lots will come up I got a new Hanuman Chalisa album coming out of 11 different versions of the Hanuman Chalisa that will be out in September and uh hopefully I'll be at yogaville again in the fall sometimes yeah November possible so that would be wonderful and always good things happen so I'd
(54:51) love to meet any and all of you however we can yeah thank you so much my friend I really appreciate you thank you brother I really appreciate this time too thanks for listening if you've enjoyed this content and think others might as well please feel free to share and subscribe