Living in the Golden Present: Mataji’s Wisdom for Today | Episode 114 with Swami Gurucharanananda

(1) Living in the Golden Present: Mataji's Wisdom for Today | Episode 114 with Swami Gurucharanananda - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rIahfE98wM

Transcript:
(00:05) [Music] May the entire universe be filled with peace Joy love and light May the light of Truth overcome all Darkness Victory to that Victory to that light key that opens up everything m g thank you so much for being here um I wanted to start by asking if you could share where you were born and anything you know about your your birth story oh I was born in Washington DC at Georgetown University Hospital on the ptoc river
(01:09) and it seemed that uh I was very late in coming mother was I went to the hospital three times and and had to go home so I wasn't born right right on the dot as as they would say a very good birth but not uh on top time is is the way that was felt and one one thing on the 60th birthday they say it's very auspicious to be born close at least to the place uh spend your 60th birthday close to the place where you were born and it happened that on the 60th birthday I was moving from the New York Institute to the
(02:03) ason and we had stopped in DC to at the botanical gardens because the this is time of the year everything was uh springy flowers and everything but the sky looked pretty bad and we had parked the car by the Washington Monument and walked down to the botanical gardens that's a pretty good walk and when we were coming back it looked like a big storm was coming so we got a taxi to get back to the car it could have raided at any moment and the driver said where are you going and we said well we're we're going immediately
(02:48) to Charlottesville in Virginia no ma'am he said uh storms a very bad could be a tornado a very bad storm you better stay overnight in Washington so we we agreed we thought he what he knew so we were driving out along the pomac and we found a uh little uh place to rent uh a room and it was on the river immediately across from the hospital and that was my birth night and I was that close to the hospital it was really very interesting and we hadn't planned that at all it wasn't it wasn't in our plans
(03:42) and they say it's very it's very good for the 60th birthday so that's an interesting connection to make with my birth and it was April 1st which is also very a suspicious because God loves babies and fools and when you're born on April 1st you get both of them so I was happy about that too we yeah having your birthday be on April Fool's Day how did you feel about that like would people want to especially play you know jokes on you would you play any jokes on anyone else I didn't I thought of it only in
(04:29) the in the term of blessings with uh with the Divine for jokes it's fine I I mean I I like that everybody else was having a good time on that day too at school there was always the April Fool's joke right how about the the feel of your home what do you remember like being a child and and growing up in your home could you describe how that felt for you yeah well I don't know I was uh I my older sister three years older and then I and then for four years uh it was just the two of us and then my brother was
(05:13) born so it was the two of us and we were very good friends but it's interesting uh the family as a family uh I don't I I don't know you know when they talk about about attachments uh how difficult it is to uh move away from the from the family and and live first place we were the only family in America all the relatives were in Hungary so I didn't have any cousins or aunts and uncles or anything like that in America there were no other relatives so uh I didn't didn't have that family type
(06:02) attachment so in a spiritual life in religious life for me that was not a real problem because I didn't have that connection to other people as being you know close uh family I didn't I only met one aunt and one cousin I didn't uh I didn't meet any other members of the family in in real life so it's in you know that part of it was uh for me uh almost a lesson that I've had many past lives already you know this was something very different this life was was uh has been experiencing things that led me more to
(07:01) connect try to connect to God in in this uh being happy because you know I don't feel connecting to God in that spiritual sense is something that's going to make me uh sort of closed off from people it's it's going to sort of make me more friendly more happy and I was a very cheerful child child I mean that was the thing that uh I was always ready to walk up to somebody and and smile and and say something nice to them in fact that bothered mama and daddy a little bit you know they would wish no no no no but it
(07:52) was natural to feel a a love and a friendliness to people so you almost sounds like you had a sense that more attachment to a family is something you've experienced maybe in previous lives and this life was more to focus on the connection with God and through that connection as you said it's it doesn't disconnect me from anyone else it actually makes those connections even stronger yes it gives me more of a feeling of belonging to the to uh we're all one IDE aidea that uh we come from the same
(08:33) source so if we come from the same Source how can we be so different but body mind is different and I could see that in the in the family that we were very individual which was good but uh I don't know it it it made me feel differently to people in general I feel more uh more connected to to meeting new people and being with people at this age now I'm enjoying a little bit more to be to to have a little by yourself type time just because I like the quiet and I think that that is also something that uh is very productive in
(09:34) in your older age to feel more comfortable when people say oh I feel lonely I don't have uh people around me that much I don't feel that way there's always something to think about in a good way meditate about and deepen a little bit in this time of your life where as before you were more uh occupied with whatever was your work your job your duty to do that that was more or less uh when you're awake you're at your duty that's that's sort of how it how it goes now it isn't quite that way you look for
(10:23) a little quiet a little time to be on your own and I enjoy that you enjoy the quiet I enjoy the the quiet and the time to listen uh I enjoy listening to gev's talks because now that I get to do the the readings every day the more you hear his comments on the scriptures and the more you hear his talks on the tapes that we can listen to on our on our little computers you always hear something new and this for me is is exciting in that sense and it's the same thing it's the same tape and I hear something
(11:19) different that I either I hear it in a different way because I've learned a few things in between and so I hear it from a from a different angle which is interesting but you you know when I mentioned that to people why don't you listen to this tape again uh oh uh that that oh it's very good but I've I've heard it lots of times you know so and I said no try it again if you've grown a little bit since the last time you you heard it you're going to hear something in that tape that you didn't hear
(12:06) before that's how when when you come from a ssung and you people are talking about gv's talk and everything and they say sometimes they'll say something that you didn't hear but you listen to the tape yes it's there if you're not ready to hear that you don't hear it even if you listen to the tape again M it doesn't strike you and I find this very interesting and so it takes away any uh any feeling of being alone or lonely do you feel that listening itself is um even like a like an art form or a
(12:51) craft something that can be practiced and you can become a more proficient listener over time I think I think so h but do you know what it depends on if you're interested if something uh the Holy Father for Christmas this past Christmas was saying why don't you in in the New Year's resolutions that you make why don't you say to yourself I want to be more childlike what does that mean it means that I can be amazed I can be a at the simple things that happen during the day instead of just another day I don't
(13:47) notice how little things if I'm noticing if I'm interested in what's going on I feel that there are many new things that happen every day and I love that in because uh I really feel that how can you be child like and not be awkward and uh like a child in that aspect you can you can get interested you can get surprised you can be uh AED you you can be interested in what's going on and to me that uh that makes my life always happy and interesting because I feel like everything today is different from yesterday really there's a
(14:40) curiosity there's a curiosity yeah and when some people feel you know I always joke you can wake up either way good morning God or you can wake up good God morning you know so quick the night went by no you want to wake up happily yeah ultimately you know is this life a gift it is do you feel that way yes yeah I really I really do and I as I've been more involved in yoga in that sense of of seeing the spiritual life from an entity uh standpoint I don't know social people in their in their life they're
(15:42) more interested in what's going on today politically in uh socially speaking uh jobwise it it is outside of yourself what's going on outside and I feel that everything that is going on now from particularly from the yogic approach how is this helping me to fulfill the purpose for this birth what's happening today what am I learning that I can change because that's what's that's why I'm in this life yeah something has to be worked out I like I think like everybody else we bring this little
(16:33) black garbage bag that has to be emptied by doing things a little differently than you do do the did them in the last birth how can you benefit from this test this situation and so I'm look I look at at the day from a different uh standpoint so everything external you know looking at it through the lens of how can I use the external to help um help Foster some kind of growth healthy change internally with W with me and to be really curious about what's happening inside like is that the number one priority to to focus
(17:22) on what's Happening for me inside what's my mind doing what's my body doing because I the most direct control of that and also can I have faith in the outcome of doing that internal work yes because you as you keep doing that you become a little bit more proficient in being uh interested in considering what goes on during the day to making it be to your advantage and a lot of times being to your advantage just means it helps you correct yourself or it helps you notice mistakes or it helps you notice things
(18:12) that many times you hear other people say I'll forget it uh it'll it will pass it'll it will go away I'm not interested in that now and I find myself not occupied by interest in that but taking interest in it because why else is it happening why else am I in that situation if it wouldn't be God's putting me there and and I well I I feel the last maybe 40 50 years I have become more aware of you know why you're in this why are you with this person because they have a purpose of being in your life at this
(19:09) time and I remember when I was studying in Italy violin in 62 and three Maestro maloni was like a guro I mean he was I want you to do this and this and this I want you to respond to this I don't want you to be doing what you want to do I'm going to say something and I want you to apply it I don't care what you do when you get home when you go back but while you're here I have to be the one in charge and that was sort of new to me to have somebody uh outside of my father in particular to be the one
(20:07) in charge like that humanly speaking so it was very interesting and my mother was uh stayed for the first summer with me and came to all the lessons and was absolutely in Bliss because uh he's she grew up in in Europe and there's a European way of approaching teaching and studying and going through things and my my onlyi was the first person that ever had that same uh feeling of uh try this try that and sometimes it was devastating he would have me change the hand position would do do it in another uh way used different
(21:01) fingering and and as you studied it and memorized it you you went through this now he's changing the whole thing using different positions different string everything come back the next week after going through all of that he's listening it was better the last way so it would go back to the other way and I would at the beginning my face probably looked like uh I had just swallowed Castor oyal or something but he stuck with it and mama was so impressed that he was trying to make me break down and and just keep listening don't don't
(21:45) be concerned about oh you memorized it this way hold on to it uh open up be just move along and here's how to move along listen and he's only telling you this in order to improve he's not telling you there to to make you uh cry he wants he wants you to see that this position that you worked on is different from this and that's what a guru wants you to experience and they may say things that that hurt they may ask you to do something that you you don't feel feel drawn to do do it and you honestly
(22:34) learn that ultimately it is for your good even if you have to work through and I noticed that being a year and a half with him uh study made a tremendous difference you know I listened I heard things differently when I was listening to myself and he mentioned uh go to Santa croch a church that was only a block away and and just sit inside and they have the marble columns they were green marble but it wasn't just green you know it was a a varied green color on the marble not just a solid color and he said he his mother would go in and would
(23:27) uh be praying and meditating and he had to go in and just watch the color change in the marble so he said you go over and do that because I was doing something from the box sonatas and he said you're not subtle enough you're not hearing within the phrases the degrees of accent of dynamics of uh emotion that they're very slight but without it it's not the passage so go watch the changes it was amazing just to sit and watch the sunlight coming through the windows changing the marble colors and very
(24:24) subtly and when I went back I uh I just mentioned to him it was it I've never watched marble change in colors like that and and he said it should change the way you see but it should change the way you hear and how do you express what you see and hear there has you have to get into and I find life is like that that's what gev was so master about noticing things and how he would tell the same story but change one or two details so that the story was the same story but uh he would emphasize something that would walking out of the
(25:17) room somebody would say you know I've heard that story so many times but I I thought he said something different tonight and it just made it like a new story to me and I think he was masterly in doing that so that you don't walk out and say same thing it's not the same thing because you're different so you should hear something different every moment is different and unique right yes and I find that that that to me is what spiritual life is is about that Curiosity in in the moment of um you know not
(26:03) being bored I think that that's the the word around this conversation that happens you know I could stare at sunlight hitting a column and and feel that that's a boring thing nothing's happening but there's so much there I think that you're pointing to to to really be interested in and maybe that's like the spiritual life is just being so interested and curious and what's happening now and even to do that I think the ego needs to go away yes in order you know what G says live in come
(26:39) on the live in the golden present and he loves to use words that have many meanings he's a master in the language you know that was not his first language yeah the golden present but golden because it's precious it's it's different it's strong it's shiny it lasts a long time and it influences you it attracts you those are all words for gold and golden and then what about living the golden present a present is a gift it's Unique in this moment it's different from all other moments yeah then live in
(27:30) the golden present don't just exist live yeah those are those are little things that you can pin those up on the on your mirror or someplace in your head and you realize he's telling you every moment is different and important because if you're supposed to move on and not pay attention to it that's important M and when you don't understand that that's possible you are wasting time you should be able to distinguish between important things and happenings this is just a happening go through it or but this one uh pay
(28:19) attention to it learn something from it I wanted to ask about your parents can you share a little bit about just what they were like how they parented what you learned from them well my father was in boarding school all his life I think from early grade school on and then was in boarding school for high school both universities and Cornell for his Doctorate so I don't he didn't have much uh of time with the family he was born in uh 1989 18 excuse me 18 1889 and those were years when uh sicknesses diseases were
(29:19) prevalent there were 11 children and only three lived and my father father came home at Easter on vacation and the 11th little girl caught the flu from him that he brought home from school he didn't have it but he brought the and she passed and my father overheard if fero hadn't come home uh for the vacation he wouldn't have brought this and that really affected him he wasn't supposed to have heard it but he did so he said you know it it really uh it really pained him a lot but he was into his studies my mother was a very fine
(30:17) pianist she had master classes with his mother with a list in as a Pianist Master Class she played beautifully and she wanted Daddy to play piano so he was taking piano lessons and whenever he'd come home played the same piece because he didn't he really didn't want to play himself he love music but that's it he was in science and he was very good at it he was a research chemist and he did very well uh in that he was one of what is this important uh us chemist research chemist or something he's in that collection so he
(31:09) really he did very well my mother was an artist and and played music her father was a concert violinist and because he he was Lutheran in the family there had to be a a minister the older boy was a Pianist he taught piano at the conservatory in Budapest and he said uh you have to you have to take over drop your violin uh concertizing and take over the ministry so as a minister the priest was a violinist in lugos the chist was a Rabbi granddaddy was violinist and the the other minister was a violist in the same city where he was stationed these
(32:11) these people were fantastically Musical and every Sunday afternoon they would come over and they played together and and Mama's mother played Pio and she would play if they needed a Pianist so there was a lot of music in the family both my father's family and mama's so they were interested in that and so uh both of them were family people they they really enjoyed being at home and being with us when we were growing up my father read to us a lot and and you know coming from the office I remember in the evenings we were doing
(33:04) homework and uh there was no radio or or television or anything television didn't even exist in our little age but they didn't have the the radio on even because daddy would talk to Mama about the uh research of the day here was a problem that that uh he had to bring home and he would he would go through it with Mama and she said you know darling I didn't understand a word what I was talking about but I I sat there with real interest and then all of a sudden he would be listening to himself of what
(33:53) is he saying and finally he would say I think I have it then the radio would come on they could listen to something we would we finish with homework we could come in and listen to something and then go to bed but uh you you know there was interest and mother would paint she went to the corkran in in Washington and took studies not so much that she wanted to be with other people because we were all in school after that time and she would be at home and she said yes I I I didn't go every day but three times a week I went to uh
(34:41) to school because I want to be with other people and you're in that room and you you you get influenced by creative thinking and enjoyment of what they're doing they're not disgusting did and and then when she would come home she said she felt more renewed and and then she would go to her studio and paint and feel feel comfortable father my father was in charge there was no two ways about it but uh he's he gave enough support to Mama so that there was a really nice feeling uh between the two of
(35:37) them they didn't know each other Daddy bought the house in Arlington and his parents thought you buy a house he must he must have a girlfriend well what what is this no he has to marry a a Hungarian a person of our class that the person that we know come home so he went home the families knew each other but my mother did not know my father at all so they were home for a week or so and this was the family marriage so it it doesn't make any difference my father had passed away a my grandfather had passed away
(36:29) a year before so it was within you you know the a time that you you don't have these happy occasions coming through within that this is you're talking about when your father was a young man and right before he met your Mother yes okay my father my grandfather had passed away a year before so they were still in mourning so that was not the the most positive situation for a marriage and mama was almost most engaged to a lawyer who was fishing and Grandma was not in favor of that at all because he was going to be
(37:15) stationed in Romania so everything worked out no that's finished here you are with my father so they got married very quickly and spent the rest of the month in in Europe traveling around and then came back to America and went right right away to Arlington where had a lovely home and it was it was really interesting mama had studied ballet as a as a young lady and she also took haa there was a haa teacher in uh in lugos and she said that uh the teacher insisted that she take because the Hatha teacher was concerned with the breathing
(38:16) and the deep relaxation and they said what is more important in in the ballet for balance then good breath good breathing strength determination and uh whatever has to be done my mother had that those qualities it was it was interesting she really she was she was welldeveloped in that way and when we were grow I was like two or three years old and she had uh some other children from the area who wanted to uh take some stretching some uh opening to ballet and Mama sure she would work with them and so I had a chance to you know
(39:08) be on the floor and and be in in the room so there were it it was a a nice feeling as a as a young child and I enjoyed that much more than my sister she uh she loved to read and and play the piano and I love to do things with other people and uh so I was more interested in in uh in playing ook me do it it was like how about school life uh for you school life was was fine when I went to Hume school which exists as a museum now uh I I enjoyed we learned to read very quickly uh because when my father read to us we would uh be either sitting in his
(40:14) lap or or in the chair next to him and he would be going with his finger across the line so you would see what he was reading and in in School uh this was about 19 33 something like that 34 the teacher in school had us many new words that we would read and find during the day it's it's unbelievable she wanted us to cut them out from the newspaper to find in the in some section of the newspaper these words that we had uh learned during the day you know that was really interesting and my father would would try to have us
(41:06) point to any word that that we had been introduced to and we would read it from the sentence not he and then we go through the whole sentence so it was a really fun type of time with him he really enjoyed being with us and he loved chess he was an excellent chess player and he and and Dr geroff from the office he would come out at night have supper with us and they would play chess and they would be playing chess for two or three hours and my father would make a move and Dr geroff would say that's that that that's that's too
(41:56) that's too hard you can't do move like that you know we could hear the the game going on and then they would laugh it it was a lot of fun but Daddy loved the challenge of of of somebody who also loved to to do something that took thinking not not just uh come and have supper and then Converse about who knows what no let's let's play because he said it makes a difference when you were doing research gof did too uh you're you're thinking in in a a discriminative way that you you want to release something
(42:44) and open up something and so games like that he he loved he really loved to play that way and was very good at it so both of the parents were were very interested and had a good upbringing themselves and tried to pass that on to us anything that you know about like your family history of um how how your parents came to this country or your the story of your grandparents well they go back to about 14th century that uh the code of arms come from in both families they they uh were in different parts uh my mother's family was more close to uh
(43:36) Budapest and in in the uh Central North part my father's family some were from that area but most of them were were from the uh the lower half of Hungary and over to the Atlantic ocean no yes to the Atlantic Oceans side which would be East in Hungary West okay whichever anyhow a little bit more toward that side so there were there were some very I don't know when you when you live in a certain life life standard there are certain experiences that come no matter where you live you there are just certain history that that
(44:39) comes down and that that is the uh sort of how it comes I don't know so much the the history of of Mama's Family because the mother's side was Catholic and Daddy's granddaddy uh trunka was uh Lutheran so I don't know what their part of the family but they were very much into music and uh Arts my mother's far uh Uncle uh was a Tibetan Buddhist and traveled in Tibet and made the first uh wrote the first Hungarian sort of Grammer for Tibetan and Hungarian because he said when he traveled and went up in the mountains
(45:43) there was a place where he said I understood what the people were speaking in tibetan and he was speaking thinking in Hungarian and he said it was it was uh absolutely mindboggling that he had that vocabulary that was there so he said there must be there must have been a connection in ancient times Hungarian has a Sanskrit uh background so he said it could come from something like that that he was able to uh to work out a like a grammar book that he brought back to Hungary with him and it was much appreciated by people who
(46:36) were trying to to study so Mama's Family was more in to that and my father's family my grandfather was a physicist a no pharmacist and Grandma was a was a uh pianist do you know the story of how they came to the United States or why they came oh because Daddy got his Doctorate at Cornell got his job in Washington immediately as a uh research chemist biochemist and so naturally he was going to stay here and Mama came only because Daddy was living here oh so when the family connected them she was still in Hungary oh yes oh
(47:34) oh yes Mama was not here at all they hadn't even they hadn't met she knew the family she knew Grandma but she had never Daddy was not at home during those times when they would visit so it was totally arranged it was totally arranged wow totally arranged and the funny thing is because Daddy bought a house and built had the house built they immediately thought he must have a girlfriend yeah must be wanting to get married so that's when took action they took action [Laughter] like so that's how we have no and we
(48:20) still only now our own family my sister married had three children she passed away with the third boy so they are the three relatives and they are now in their the children are now in their 50s uh and so their children are married with Children so we have relatives now only because of this immediate family having some children relatives are all in Europe they've all stayed in in Hungary so is it that's uh that's quite interesting and we had uh I don't know Daddy was a very good horseback rider and uh we moved from Arlington
(49:23) into Maryland he got 125 acres and he he wanted to live in the country where there was someone else did the farming for us but he wanted to have some farming he wanted new life he wanted to have uh some we had two cows so that we had milk and he learned how to milk a cow himself so before he went to work every morning he did the milking you know it's it's really interesting that he he wanted to be active and I think it's because he really never had what what was a a a home life as a young boy he was always in
(50:10) school and even in vacation times he would be elsewhere I don't I don't know why did you feel close with him with my father uh he had a a loving nature and he would take he would take you very close as a very small child he would hold me a lot he would lie down on on his back and and he would have me on his knees or on his tummy and and play uh mama had some pictures of that so it was it was very sweet which he didn't do that much with Virginia the older one I don't know uh mama just said that
(50:58) uh I was a very happy child and I think that uh sort of connected a little bit with with him and I was very close to my mother and I'm I'm very much like Mama so uh is there anything particular that stands out that you really learned from from her that was extremely that has been extremely important for you in your life I tell you it's paying attention I remember uh after my father passed maybe another year or so she moved to Washington and my brother and his wife stayed at the country place and then they they just we were 16 miles
(51:57) from from DC so they would go in and Mama lived on Mass Avenue and she would walk around in the morning once I was home visiting and we went for the morning walk and she just said uh they made some changes since the last time that you were here let's go for a walk but she wanted to for me to find out what were these changes and I was walking around was fine and I didn't notice what she was noticing had noticed so she said let's go again you you you didn't notice something so we walked around again and I still didn't
(52:48) notice it and she was very upset because she how is it that we're going for a walk for because they had been changing some things in the last time you were here and you didn't notice this and I said well I didn't I I was too interested in seeing this and this I probably wasn't looking on this side honey you have to see she would be sketching any other place when we would travel in Europe together and everything her sketchbooks were like what people other people take as films you could tell exactly where
(53:30) you were but not because it was photographic but because she she accentuated something in this little area that were they were picturing maybe it was a tree maybe it was a car maybe it was a horse it didn't make any difference she accentuated something from that that made you know exactly where you where that was drawn it it was phenomenal how how she would just see so we're walking and we the Mayflower Hotel is on this side and then on this side of it was what I was supposed to see well in years past the the
(54:21) garbage uh trash cans you had to go down about five steps and there was a a large area here and the big windows in the apartment place here and the garbage cans were down at the bottom base of the stairs well that's what I notic I I didn't look for there I knew that that's what that was I was looking around no what changed was the garbage was not down there anymore the people who lived in the basement apartment had redone this whole thing the garbage can came up on the sidewalk the steps had been covered with
(55:10) water I don't think they took away the steps but there was a pond down here now fish pond with beautiful lies down here and she couldn't understand that how you missed it you know that I I would miss this seeing it but when she told me and I looked at it I said oh my goodness this is this is lovely to to to see this now they' made a made a pond out of that area what a benefit for the basement people they had a big window now and now a pond and they didn't didn't bother them at all about the the street noise and
(55:56) garbage C so I thought that was wonderful and then she mentioned to me uh you have to be more observant about anything and everything you you you really have to pay attention pay attention to people I do uh if you're talking I'm Lally listening to what you say I I'm not looking around to see somebody else I I really do pay attention but sometimes uh I just found that that was an important thing uh Mama went to a yogic meditation class that in Washington uh Vishnu devananda had a center in in DC at that
(56:53) time and she wanted to go for the meditation so when she went in they had a table like this and chairs around and so on but they had several things on the table it was a vase of flowers a picture uh some pen pencil a little bit of paper something and she said when she went in she she was just looking oh my goodness interesting to have a table like that in a meditation class what I mean what's this about so when uh the teacher came in opened up a Class A cloth but covered the table and then was asking individuals uh I have a piece of paper
(57:42) for each one of you I want you to put down everything you remember seeing on this table mama had the whole thing she got it and the people were they were floored they said I how did you see all of that well that's maybe that's what it means to be the artist you you notice things of this kind and so I I that was my first thing to see that and and I got it and I remember what's on it and that struck me when she told me that story because I felt you know what that's what she was asking me to do you know be more
(58:27) be more observant of of things it goes back to the golden present I think that's what what allows for that yes to be totally interested in what's happening now right now yes and so over those years I think that was one of the first thing that that uh that she she would I would say I learned from her I'm wondering do you remember what your first job was or an early job that maybe you had H well set the table yeah uh no before that was make your bed that was and Mama would help me until I was old enough to be able to make the bed
(59:18) myself which wasn't too old but you have to be able to pull and straighten everything but to set the table and that was fun cuz there were five of us all together and uh daddy Sat by himself over here because he served everybody that I remember one thing that I you know you think of it as being something so silly but it is something I never forgot uh you you had to eat what you were served had to in a sense there was no uh spanking connected to it but you you you didn't refuse that's all there was to it you had to
(1:00:08) eat it and I just did not like uh in those days I didn't like spinach I love it now but I didn't like it there and daddy would be he he knew those things but you had to have something of everything and there was like a tablespoon of spinach on the on the plate everything else disappeared the spinach stayed we didn't have dessert every day in the evening but that night we had apple pie so everybody else's dishes went out clear no they couldn't touch my dish there was still spinach on it I had to
(1:00:56) eat the spinach I didn't want to eat the spinach so there was no pie and just spinach on the dish everybody finished they were gone they left the table and from the living room my father [Laughter] call have you eaten the spinach yet I heard there was a voice tone that was irrit ated I tell you the fork was took the whole spoonful of spinach it was in my mouth yes daddy oh all right darling you can have the pie and that was it but you know that it was just something like his voice you knew uh absolutely there's something
(1:01:57) about our voices I think that that to to speak about paying attention right like the Nuance the the tone the way that you say something it has a power to it right it really does and that would not have been fun if I hadn't had if I hadn't eaten that yet because I was going to eat it whether I liked it or not and he would have come in no you don't there are certain things that you realize you you have to you have to consider how about a a paying job did you have like when you were in high school or early years or
(1:02:42) anything like that no did you know like um so if you could share about you know your um your path into religious studies and your interest in that is that something you knew from um a child that this is this is what you wanted to devote your life to or was it something discovered later on only that situation of uh 1939 where I had that uh experience with gud then I realized that that was a Divine something something I never had imagined before and to me it was the Christ and by the time it was finished I I left I went in to see Mama and she
(1:03:35) said uh Mama's painting darling could you come could you come back a little later so I went back out on the porch and it was still there smiling not didn't say a word just looked at me and at that moment I gave myself to God that was it period about how old were you 10 years old it was August of 39 and it was very uh very a very strong experience and I didn't have any any uh any reason to dis scred that I mean that was when I when I gave myself to God at that at that time I meant it I mean it was really what did that mean to you to give
(1:04:37) yourself to God at that time that I was going to be a nun that's what it meant yes because my mother went to Catholic School in Hungary all her life she finished the gymnasium which would be more like one or two years of college which girls didn't go to she and the rabbi's daughter and somebody else were the only only girls in her class in in the uh in the high school or two years of college is is sort of what it was equal to in in America so she would tell me about about the sisters and and how much how much they
(1:05:20) did for the students and and how how much she loved them and and they they were so helpful and and I I felt that that that would create that opportunity for me at the same time to grow in that way and Express in that way so it just stayed with me and when I when I was a Junior and senior in high school I went to Catholic U and I studied acting h and I was the there were four of us who were in this one little group and we had to give a play uh sometimes we gave two of them if they were very short and a week but we were
(1:06:13) in the summer school for three and a half weeks so we had a lot of time to different plays and and different actions and things like that that we were learning speak enunciate clearly so that you can be heard instead of of swallowing half your words and that's when I met uh the sisters that I went to afterwards they they were so loving of each other and that was impressive because there were so many different orders in the summer attending classes and I could I could see here's here again where you notice things I
(1:07:03) could see that some of them were so happy to be uh taking different classes and being alone then they could go to lunch with this one or go out here and and blah blah blah and the precious blood sisters they wanted to have lunch together and that affected me in a very positive way I thought you you know they love being together they were apart all day in different classes and and they would like Lynch together and so uh I felt very very touched by sister amberine and she didn't uh she didn't make any oh oh uh would you like to be a
(1:07:52) sister have you thought of that or something and she was she was just herself loving to each one of us and and to to the sisters and the family and it made a lot of difference to me so I was thinking of the carites at the beginning they were full this was in in 1940 uh seven you you had a waiting list and they could only have 22 otherwise they had to open up a new house so uh I I changed from the contemplative to the active I thought no I don't want to wait for how many years and I don't even want to finish the college first I want to go
(1:08:52) and then finish college while I'm there because they have College the sister so I I went went that way and it was uh it was very very interesting to meet different people people out west because this was Midwest in Kansas are very different from people on the East Coast as a general rule so uh the Midwest I think was heavily settled with people in from uh Germany and that part of of Europe which which has a certain uh cultural feel mhm so it was in very interesting our years there and we went to college finished up uh college there and went to
(1:10:00) graduate school and and it it was uh again it was it was very interesting because the the I remember you know it's interesting I'm sure there were because you're you're with human beings they were probably difficulties and everything but to me I remember the even when we were living together there in the Summers over 500 of us at home and then others away for summer school uh I remember a a feeling of closeness of family in the right sense of the word not attachments but of of uh of a lot of fun in being
(1:11:00) together and that's another thing that that Drew me when I had a chance I I met the person uh who played the piano for me for my graduate recital in in Florence uh she's the one that introduced me to gura because when she came back uh uh her students would be telling her we just came from this really interesting uh talk uh there there's this there's a a Swami he dresses in Orange a Swami and he's giving talks on Friday night at the Universalist Church you you really should come they would ask her tell her
(1:11:52) come with come with us and and everything so she said I I went once and it was fantastic and she said you know one of the things that really got me was uh he came in at 7:30 or 8:00 whatever was was the talk he walked in from the side and he said everybody stood up and she said uh I wasn't used to to having someone powerful enough didn't do anything except he he walked in and had a chair set up for him so he was sitting on the chair and she said it was like I got up too she said it it uh it's amazing I'm
(1:12:46) going again and so she went for a while she next time that you come to DC come to New York I'll take you to on that uh for that talk well that didn't happen I I didn't get a chance to do that but I was reading for the 1971 sisters today a report on the 10day Interfaith Retreat that gerv had sponsored in uh New York and that the uh priest who wrote the article was there he was the one of the four speakers uh for the 10day retreat and he said it was just it was excellent were over 500 people that that were
(1:13:45) coming and they they had a wonderful wonderful Retreat and they were going to have another one in the 71 and that's the one I got to go to Mama went sister Helen Elizabeth went and it uh it was it was a change has Chang in my life I've never never had the an experience like that because it was he that's how I know absolutely it was he but back [Music] in 39 that energy was was right there and I think he recognized it because when I saw him it was from the back he was giving a a hug to Brother David and Rabbi gelberman had just
(1:14:46) arrived and so they were in in this little circle but then he let go and there a number of us had come out on the staircase of the dining hall to uh welcome him and then go back and finish your supper but they said we could come out and welcome him if we wish so I did Mama came and sister Helen Elizabeth came and when I saw him he turned around AI you know there was this like there was that same energy that light that Radiance of of him that was there is it is not you you don't have that you can't manufacture it yourself it's it's
(1:15:43) there and I think there was a response there also because during the talks we were in the auditorium for the talks I would be listening to to some of the other talks but I would be listening because they all four were sitting on the stage and I would just look at him and his eyes would and then he would look away and and so but you could tell there was something something there that that was of recognition and at the last days they were talking about uh the possibility of initiation for anybody who is who feels uh ready to have a guru but they
(1:16:35) may they really mentioned that be sure that you want a teacher if you want to have an initiation because that's the the the way in which you will be able to benefit from the teacher because you have that faith that trust and so you're going to to believe and try to to uh be supportive oh I knew I mean there was just no doubt about it and my mother was was very uh very open to it you know mama was not baptized because granddaddy said this is this is sort of delicate situation I'm the minister here and U my
(1:17:31) daughters have is getting baptized by the Catholic priest no dear but I went to Catholic school I did everything everything everything Grandma wanted other than that so Mama took initiation and was very happy she she was very very loyal to her initiation and that it took three years G was testing the whole the whole time can you share about your relationship with him and is there something in particular that you brought to the integral yoga family um that he appreciated maybe that that wasn't present before before you came well I
(1:18:23) don't know maybe well the fact that I had been uh in the spiritual life officially the spiritual life not not uh on the sideline but that was that was my choice in life uh it made a difference when uh they found the asham to have someone who was a little more than 22 or 25 I was PR 40 so I think it meant something to to uh I don't know whether I brought anything uh anything at all to him he gave everything to me whatever was in me he brought out as it there's just no two ways about it there he had he had that
(1:19:22) influence because I yearned to have it he didn't force it on on me at all it was just I reacted to him in that way that this is exactly what I what I'm looking for maybe he appreciated that you know we talk about the empty cup yes right like uh for a teacher you need to if your cup is already full and you think you know everything then you can't receive it but it sounds like you were in a place where you were totally open to receive I really and I still am because he sees everything and and you wouldn't even be here if you had
(1:20:06) everything you would have long since left the body and gone on at least for this lifetime so there's always more you finished and then there's always more so yeah I I don't know I think he's the one that's keeping me alive now for sure uh because the guru is God God is the guru it isn't uh like two different people it's it's one Essence that I really realize is is the truth when you when you have found someone who is truly your Guru you have you have found God in the in the manifested form of your Guru
(1:20:55) and that's why you can have that level of faith in the and Trust in the guru because the guru that you have chosen and and given yourself to has That Power from God God is is is the realization in that person because that person has uh has completely given over the human nature and is essentially on the spiritual level is essentially the god energy I wanted to ask you about Hope um it seems pretty common for people to um almost speak badly about the direction that the world is going you know um and so many changes are
(1:21:56) happening it seems that changes just happen faster and faster and faster and it's hard to deal with it I mean even before this I I'm so impressed that you use a smartphone and try to stay up with technology a little bit and to to check the weather you know what AI that word ultimately that's for me that's the catch word no matter what it is God says it's my name it's my form it's my play It's My blah blah blah blah ultimately it's all for good and if you forget that last little
(1:22:35) phrase it's a mess how these changes that are coming are are I mean they're mind-blowing dangerous but ultimately it's all for good and God's in charge and is that the essence of a spiritual path is to not lose that Faith to have that faith that ultimately it's it's all for good and I have a feeling in my heart that um that God's in charge God's in charge and it's going to come out he's not saying how long ultimately uh is open-ended but it it seems also that this is the internal what Happ the
(1:23:27) internal work for each of us to notice inside of myself oh am I am I being a doomsayer am I getting caught in that um that that dread that that fear of the future and is the work internally to to take that fear to see it and transmute it into into love into the faith absolutely you you that's why they the whole element in in our life is love love is the support of our entire life and if it isn't you're in trouble because then it it's it turns into selfishness it turns into Prejudice it turns into jealousy it turns into
(1:24:13) greed it turns into everything that is wrong in the world now look how just see there's so many millions and we're in the billions if we're 8 billion people there are billions of people who are wonderful but who stands out who do the newspapers and the magazines and the radio television who do they feature everybody is supposed to look at uh and see who's getting the the uh bonus for the best movie I mean do they talk do they really give station time and newspaper and book magazine time to people who do
(1:25:01) good things not very many so that same thing is happening inside right like internally how much time am I giving to the good things that's what we all have that's what we have to say live in the golden present that's one of my favorite sayings of his because it it uh well it doesn't Force you but it leads you to the highest uh choices in your life because you you realize without this I'm not happy so what's the point you're always starting over again you you choose the wrong thing and
(1:25:52) now you're in this this low ction I got upset I didn't like this I'm not going to talk to this person anymore blah blah blah what whatever it is you realize you've hurt yourself who you did because you're not experiencing love that's it and if you if you have love you can't help to say because you're the same as this other person so you you say fundament there is love because you're you're the same Essence so there's love but you don't have to have uh that person doesn't have
(1:26:37) to be your your dearest friend nor do you have to have all kinds of of uh of activity or relationship with that person you can have choose your company so you you can uh but to still wish them well wish them well yeah just don't relate to them in the in the areas where you realize it's bad company and they may not think it's bad company that they they love to have wine to drink or they love to to have a glass of whiskey or or whatever it is I I mean they don't consider that a bad thing I don't consider that a bad
(1:27:25) thing in that sense bad I consider it unhealthy for me if it's maybe it's healthy for the other people sometimes they say these people are hundred and some years old and they've been drinking wine since they were babies MH and they've had sometimes way over the wine they've been drunk many times okay I mean that's their life that's not my life seems that the the competition is such a strong pull sometimes it it must be but it doesn't but it doesn't have to be right or to be aware of how strong
(1:28:08) that pull is to make an adversary and someone instead to this is the practice of come coming back to love and no the truth is the greater truth is I I I I don't wish them harm I wish them well and you don't Christ gave us that example he didn't hate the Jews For Heaven's Sake who was who was he having a problem with the Pharisees well he was Jewish he was Jewish yeah he loved his faith he loved the scriptures he loved the I mean it that is not the point yeah the point is to overcome all that yeah what was
(1:28:52) his main EMP empasis in his teachings love and forgiveness what else could you expect yeah that's why I want to see examples of that on the news of people doing that and that's what I see in GV what was he asking of us love each other how many times did he say that over and over and over again just if you love each other you're going to think for the benefit of the other and you're going to be drawn toward serving the people not just doing things for them serving and if you serve you have to love you can't serve if you
(1:29:39) don't love it's not called service it becomes work what's become a very important word for me is Allegiance like internal Allegiance because what I've learned is that the allegiance to the mind is very strong of this mind thinking oh I know about this person and what's right and wrong in the world and all of that and and that Allegiance was strong for a long time within me but what now I'm interested is is the allegiance of love to rise above that and to question myself is how you're being right now in this present
(1:30:14) moment where's your Allegiance where is it know m g thank you so much I very blessed by your presence um I appreciate you phenomenally shall we end with another prayer yes you do it this time [Music] May the entire univers be filled with peace and joy love and light and in the light of Truth overcome all ignorance Victory to that light J Shri satguru Maharaj K ji marvelous thanks for listening if
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