Spiritual Journeys: From Rebellion to Yoga and Service | Episode 104

(1) Spiritual Journeys: From Rebellion to Yoga and Service | Episode 104 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCNlnIrvGag

Transcript:
(00:06) so Lakshmi I wanted to start by asking you about the the prison project okay how long have you been working on this now uh about going around 16 years now yeah 16 years so I'm curious what have you learned oh well I've learned all about uh the U.S uh prison system both Federal and and state and not all states but I have a pretty good idea I see a lot of similarities from one prison to another I've learned about what's missing in our system what is the objective of the project well in a way incarcerated people
(00:51) are probably the most disenfranchised group in our country today and I would say they're all in in some sort of pain being in prison it's not a nice place in it it was designed not to be a comfortable place for them uh it's designed to punish people some people can get it together to reflect on their lives and say oh I never want to do this again and I'll change all my ways but that's pretty hard to do in a vacuum unless you have a lot of programs and support now some prisons have some programs some have
(01:35) almost no programs some people some prison systems have a career and Professional Training of different sorts especially manual change training you know working with machines and things like that which is really great because uh a lot of people that end up in prison are the most unloved children of our society you know they probably were not wanted by their parents they were probably raised by a single parent often who who um did not appreciate them being a part of their lives and so they were from the get-go they were sort of treated very
(02:24) unfairly so so and then they and and some people can turn themselves around but most cannot and a lot of people that write me you have to understand there's there's a general population that goes from really heavy duty criminals all the way to innocent people that the number of innocent people are not that many it's mainly those that were with the wrong group uh are uh decided they were going to they were going through a very selfish or dark period of their life they made some mistakes and they ended up in
(03:06) prison and then but they don't know how to get out of it they don't know how to get out of those those desires and feelings and resentments and anger that that makes up their lives I wonder if this is a much different than your regular person learning to practice uh yoga this is like we're still trying to get out of something the difference is like they committed the crime yeah it's maybe the extreme version of it but it's the goal the same yeah the goal is the same yeah and that's why uh gurudev's teachings
(03:39) are perfect for them so I don't do a lot and and so many words what I do is people ask me for books I give them books and then after a while I I realized and Greenhouse books are exactly what they need they guide them to this is what not to do this is what to do you know making decisions understanding getting in control of the Mind and they have all this mortgage Board of different types of Yoga you know the yoga of divorce devotion you know the yoga of uh self-inquiry and this appeal a lot of people are searching and they search the religion
(04:24) is about the only Freedom that they have in prison and even then it's restricted but it's not supposed to be restricted so they can study just about any religion that they want but of course getting the books is a problem uh getting the the assistance getting a chaplain that's sympathetic and that doesn't believe that they all should be fundamentalist Christian you know so you have those problems but still that they they are free to pursue their own belief even if it's their own religion even if they
(05:00) make up their religion they can pursue it so that's what we have I wonder about this idea of punishment you know because I think about it like you know it's just always been around for me in my life I don't know about yours is okay you make a mistake you're punished for it so I'm wondering if you've reflected uh on the the power of punishment and if it really in general leads to the desired outcome that we're looking for well I would say uh in most cases no it doesn't uh it's like the human beings
(05:42) it is capable of of uh undergoing a tremendous amount of pain pain does not open your heart you know it's it's like it's it's like how do you learn kindness how do you learn affection it's hot it's it's like the way you do it is by seeing how other people treat you instead what did the normal prisoner gets is constant abuse constantly told what they already believe is that they're worthless and when you believe you're worthless you know you don't even believe that you can be changed
(06:24) so what what a lot of prisoners do is uh they go they escape through drugs and right now there's a horrible uh fentanyl um explosion in the in the prison you know uh people smoke sometimes it was called K2 and I've been told by different prisoners that it's it's it's basically just fentanyl mixed with any old thing that could and so many prisoners have died from this in prison they smoke it and they'd have a bad reaction to it and then they're they're sent to the emergency room and then they're dead
(07:05) you know uh others it's it's just that it turns them into zombies literally zombies but they're in so much mental anguish and pain that they'd prefer being and as soon as as you know fentanyl is it's usually brought in by the guards you know and the guards you know it's like the guys who are bringing it into the prisons they've got lots of money and they can bribe those guards and you know give them lots and lots of money that they would never see otherwise so it's it's a easy thing you know it's
(07:42) it's it's a decision that they often make and hoping that they'll get away from it uh you know and they'll get away with this this bringing it in then they bring it in and you've got people sick and and dead and zombies and then the people that don't want it they're smoking it so it's in the air and if you have asthma or anything else like that you know it's it's effect it's impacting your health so uh it's a really big problem but why are why why do as soon as that shipment
(08:18) comes in and Fentanyl for these guys they just there's a ton of guys that just line up and uh and start taking it and they know that people are dying from it they know that they could die they know that it turns into themselves into a zombie and yet they keep taping it why because they have no hope they have no no you know their their life is so bitter and so so painful that they just want to escape from the pain hmm there's no meaning there's no meaning in their life no I love what you said about kind of like
(08:59) opening up the heart that's like a way that to even reflect on this and think like how does a human being begin to open up their heart and be because right and I don't I don't even know if that's something that most of us stop and think about like right to how did how does one learn that to do that what what the yogis usually say is is that uh if you can get someone to do another another person a good deed you know you feel better about it there's even been studies about this you know that people give hope a group of
(09:36) people twenty dollars they can spend it on themselves uh or they can give it to somebody else and whenever they give it to somebody else they're much happier about it it's just like giving brings happiness selflessness brings happiness it just opens up the space and the heart and the mind and the more if anything you want to get addicted to it's it's loving and serving others so uh by teaching them to be kind you know and we I mean sometimes you have to reward it they've done this with children in different sorts of special
(10:19) school for delinquent children that they reward them for for being good you know in a way that but not just uh you know tattling on their other their other uh classmates it's more about doing something thoughtful doing something kind doing something a nice word a thank you it may start very small but it's once you get fit them going on it they get the taste of it and sometimes you have to start in different places and every every part you can't like some of these guys their hearts are so hard it's just like all the wires have been
(11:02) pulled out of their heart and one of my the second guy that I wrote he was uh he uh he was one of those guys yeah but he was he was reaching out why because one of his his um uh fellow inmates taught him a few yoga asanas and so he would start practicing these yoga asanas and uh and pretty soon he would sit down and watch a film with Denzel Washington in it and he'd start to cry and he hadn't cried since he was a teenager maybe even a you know a 12 year old or something and he would start to cry and uh and he wanted to know what was
(11:49) going on he it's like all these emotions he would read a book he'd start to cry you know so what was happening well the asanas are amazing things you know they put that they open up the energy meridians in the body you know they open up you know the heart they stretch out the muscles they release the pain all of the tension all of the insults that we've it it it's it's it's all it's it's it's stored in the body in different parts of the body the asanas will release that and when when it's released and things
(12:35) start flowing again then your heart starts opening because it starts reconnecting all those wires that have been disconnected for so long and sometimes they have to go through a period of uh of Sorrow to uh to reach but it's it's a sweet sorrow it's a sorrow when they start engaging with other people and engaging um because see when you reach out to another person and give what's really happening it's like you're connecting with your true self and that other person that's what I've learned from doing the
(13:17) prison project you know the more that I I give to others it's like the more I see myself in them and I realized that the self that I'm seeing isn't just this mind and body it's the true self but it's like my my individual human mind just takes it as I see in this person uh you know someone that gets hurt someone that just wants to be loved someone wants that wants to be respected you know and do good in the world and and that's much more important than money it's much more important than nice
(14:03) clothes are material things what what's important but to be loved and respected by others is very but they don't know how to do it they don't know how to get it every every attempt at love in their life has usually been thwarted somehow or another because of the circumstances that they've grown up in so is that they've got 10 strikes against them yeah let's say a hundred strikes but uh if we had an environment that would somehow nourish some of these things and other prison systems in different
(14:41) countries have done uh work with this Germany Sweden Scandinavian General have very uh Progressive um uh systems in which you know that they don't give them long sentences we give very very long sentences in this country we pay a very high price for that you know it they say that it's anywhere from uh for each individual prisoner it's somewhere between 15 000 which is very low it's more like 20 000 probably in today's dollars all the way up to 40 000 sometimes sixty thousand dollars a year
(15:31) to support those incarcerated people and she's now some of them need to be imprisoned it's true they are dangerous people and we have to figure out something better than just warehousing them and that's what most of our prison system is it's warehousing and like I said some systems have Rehabilitation through teaching trades and other things but it the person has to be open to it um there's a lot there's a lot of and I'm not talking as an expert I'm just talking as a bystander on the side of
(16:15) the road well I think about even just in terms of all of us I think it feels like each of us have a responsibility to look at this issue you know it's not if there is someone who is not safe to have them be in the open world then okay we need to take them and put them in in a place but what is the objective you know the objective is Right Rehabilitation I would say well no I would say the first objective is to protect Society from them okay first objective is is to protect society and that's very important I mean and we shouldn't
(16:55) downplay this for in in the psyche of the American people today are are any any any country you know um but what we need to do is we we need to have more programs in which Rehabilitation is the main thing you know so and you can't do it with the most hard and Criminal but you can do it you can do it with people who have had violent crimes and have a good record in prison for a couple of years you know just doing the routines and then and seeing and they've had tremendous success with people who have gone in with murder charges
(17:40) you know uh with certain Progressive in Georgia for example that they had a a very Progressive program and they took people that had been incarcerated for a particular amount of time and they they put them on in a short track in Texas they've gone the spiritual route they um for people that have a really long long you know and probably violent crimes that they they um they can they'll if they can get into it this Christian program and you have to be a Christian and you have to take the classes you don't have to be a
(18:17) Christian but you have to take all the class the Christian classes and then you you you're you're put into a four-year seminary in which you come out with a bachelor's degree in religion and um uh you're trained to be what's called uh what is it a uh a field minister and these field ministers go to are sent to different prisons within the system and they are the assistant to the chaplain and uh and these guys are on Fast Track to get out but they have to do probably at least five to seven years as a field
(18:57) Minister and then they there they can come up for parole you know probably you know 99 years sooner than they would have otherwise so um uh so that's that's another track and a lot of people I I I correspond with one of these field ministers now and he's he's the most amazing person he uh he takes care of all of the non-Christian groups he himself uh has a background in um uh uh uh what is it that they vedanta Society of New York uh I don't know if he's connected to New York or Southern California or where but
(19:42) it was um uh vivekananda's group that uh uh you know their group and so he knows all about uh yoga and uh your philosophy philosophy and vedanta but at the same time he does everything from um you know all of this minor religions uh not just Eastern but he does the Buddhist group and he does a another group for the wiccans and another group for uh uh what is it um oh even the the Nordic religions you know so a lot of uh the um the guys in prison are these uh uh basically they they tend to be bikers that believe in
(20:33) white supremacy and and uh and worship the northern northern gods anyway so he he he he he goes ahead and he has services for them and and uh and tries to bring out all the the positive you know parts of all these religions and and ways that they can rehabilitate themselves through their their own faith so amazing person uh and and meanwhile he's and he's all about service serve serve and and they put him in the worst um the the most hardcore uh Texas prison that I know of anyway the Beto unit and um and he just it's it's like he's in
(21:19) heaven as far as he's concerned because he only sees God and all these people [Music] so so anyway there's there's all all different ways to do it but to do something I don't have the answers you know I often I often think about these things but I do know that other systems Germany has one third has about one a one-third of reciditicism rate in other words with repeat offenders yeah we have two-thirds for citizen right so for every uh three prisoners three people that go to prison and are released two will come
(22:08) back see that just that piece of information I think is such an important yeah like we should all know that that's right because that that is that clearly defines the success of uh the system itself right the goal is to not have repeat offenders they have to go through the whole thing again um so it's not a very good uh percentage of of success and then even to look at that one-third that that don't repeat what's their quality of life how are they doing when they're re-entering Society what's their experience oh yeah
(22:42) usually uh it used to be it used to be 20 years ago 30 years ago is much better I would say than it is now uh there when they had when you hear about halfway houses yeah you know uh you know in some places halfway houses are a joke uh talk about fentanyl smoking most of them don't don't provide jobs don't look help them look for jobs usually the guys that go to the halfway houses don't have any family to parole to any friends deferral to I think in in so many ways like our society is just confusing it's it's
(23:21) confusing for for many of us like even simply the the aspect of service to to talk about it I I would say that um that's a need that all of us have to to give to do something that's good but that's not um apparent you know it's not a common perception even that that I'm not going to fulfill you know my heart's desire I'm not going to feel well if I don't spend my time doing something that doesn't feel like it's helping anyone else um so that's just one point but there's
(23:58) lots of aspects of society that I think are extremely confusing to many of us and like I'm wondering like did it feel confusing to you and like being in the outside world more and is that what led you to you know live at yogaville and and become a part of integral yoga because this makes more sense to you than how how living in the outside world did say say um I was as you know my my background is in anthropology so I think we need to go back a little bit uh and uh because anthropology kind of talks about this exact subject matter right right
(24:42) culture shock how to you know all of that um you know different cultures how different cultures do things differently you know how to have an open mind with with the way different different places and customs and everything like that and the world has just grown too small now to to not have a sort of anthropological uh way of viewing things but anyway I was an anthropologist and but I had my own group of people in the anthropology department and um it was I found myself very influenced by what was going on in society you know
(25:27) and um I was a very religious child I came into this life being a very religious person and I when I I was grazed drilled and Catholic when I uh the first time I saw a nun I didn't even know what what it was you know but I that's what I wanted to do you know so there's some sort of past life thing going on there for me so and it's like my my mother was a a good Catholic but she she didn't like me to be too Catholic you know so it's like she was always toning it down she didn't want me to go to Catholic schools or do
(26:14) anything like that so uh but I really uh was was very uh it was always sort of a calling for me so religion was always there in my life and then when I went to college I went I chose a Catholic college to go to and um but then uh uh Catholic colleges are filled with kids that are with young people that were all had all gone to Catholic schools which are so at the biggest you know and especially at 18 you're sort of rebellious against with the earlier Generations have done and the church is a good uh Target for to
(26:55) repel against so everyone was around me was rebelling so I rebelled too you know so it didn't take me very long to decide that I didn't want religion anymore I didn't want I didn't know about Christianity I didn't know about the mythology that went along with it didn't have any understanding for it nor was I letting any understanding in well maybe it was also a sign to you the way that the the other kids where they were at in terms of their relationship with with the church because if they had all gone
(27:27) through years of schooling and then now they're all rebelling and none of them are interested in it then maybe that gave you some kind of feedback that that's not really uh what you wanted to be doing either wow but then here I am yeah but it's different it was different I needed to go on that journey I needed to have my my beliefs challenged and were never challenged I didn't have uh you know it it's like I want it and you know Underneath It All I just wanted to be free I wanted to be free from a lot of
(28:07) rules and regulations and and this then the church had a whole bunch of things and especially this was in this was in this uh I went to I started college in 1968 which was a very rebellious time in our among the young people of our country this was the the hippie uh generation you know and and I was I went to school to the at the University of San Francisco you know so it was like all these things you know it was a very tumultuous time in America uh especially among the American Youth and the war in Vietnam was going on at this time so and
(28:46) so we were rebelling against the country we were rebelling against the church we were rebelling against um uh uh everything and and you know with any Authority so that those were the times very very uh wild times so it's just like I needed to experience a lot of these things so the experience is good it teaches you what you want and what you don't want it teaches you that when you get what you want maybe that's not going to make you happy you know so and then I went on uh I chose anthropology as my uh
(29:27) my field and I went um uh to uh Indonesia to uh to do my field work and meanwhile uh and and I went from you know the bigger uh you know uh you know movement of the of the 1970s into grad school you know and grad school has its own very uh enclosed environment with very strong opinions again anti-religion anti-authority uh an anthropologists are very much along those lines so I went to Indonesia and then all of a sudden you have to be an observer and a participant and somewhat a participant in the in this new culture
(30:24) that you're in and um and I was in this uh uh Indonesian Village that was Christian Protestant and uh I would I would go to the church and everything with them but it was like there was something missing there and there are some some interesting things that would happen to me there but it was like at one point I uh being in this this position of just observing and watching all of a sudden all of the stuff from the last I would say six years of my life I started you know coming out and I looked at myself you know as a high school student
(31:18) a college student as a grad student and uh my values my shifting values the right the wrong of it and I decided I I didn't like who I'd become you know and that I actually who was that like who did you become like how would you become a person that was somewhat amoral you know that was very wishy-washy when it came to uh a moral stance on things uh I would I was all about myself it wasn't about other people uh if things uh pleased me and if people got hurt in the in the process I I uh uh I just you know let it
(32:08) so what you know was that you think because of fear like were you afraid that um I wasn't afraid of anything I was what what was happening is that uh I mean that that it was it was sort of like I had a spiritual I had a structure with the religion that I had and that structure began to disintegrate as soon as I rejected uh religion as a way of life so are are even a part of religion as a way of life so that began to describe the center great as it disintegrated I became more and more self-centered so you rejected it simply
(32:52) because that's what other people like that's what your peers were doing no it was I had a whole philosophy about it that it's not worth talking about now uh I I everything I'm a very intellectual person I had an intellectual response for everything I had an answer for everything I had everything that I did you know I tried and at one point early on as an undergrad I tried to replace karma yoga with this the spiritual life and it wasn't it now it didn't work well enough you know because I it was only a a
(33:32) little chunk a little of the picture uh uh you you have a critical look on your face you're trying to understand yeah I mean I don't want to go into the globe like below description of what was happening but basically I went from being uh a very uh you know a person thought about others to a person that didn't think about others and only thought about themselves uh I was the most I was the Center of My Universe and I didn't I didn't think that there were I didn't even reflect that there
(34:14) everybody walks around thinking that they're the center of their own universe and that everyone wants to be happy and everyone wants to be loved it's just like and I you know I was juggling all those things you know in a way we want to be loved but are we willing to give the love that you you I mean you know there's all those questions that come up so that's what happened and I went through the process and then when I was in Indonesia all of what had gone right and what had gone wrong came up and I
(34:48) looked at myself and why did you do that why did you do this why weren't you thinking about this other person you hurt them you know and so I think underneath I'm a pretty nice person so that nice person started looking at the behavior that this Mind Body had been going through for six years and in a sort of a disintegration of uh uh the uh thinking about others to just be being you know others Center centered to being self-centered okay so and even that served his purpose being self-centered because it showed me
(35:35) what I didn't want to do so I not wanted I didn't quite know how to go back so I decided to go back to just my own religion and and I said I don't care if I believe it or not I was a better person when I believed it I was a better person when I followed it so I just uh I guess I put blinders on I didn't I didn't want to look this way in that I didn't want point fingers and criticize I just wanted to get back to a point that I respected myself more and I was not doing that very well on my
(36:17) own so you can say it's interesting because you say that you know you were totally self-centered but at the same time you weren't respecting yourself oh yeah yeah because it was a part of me that um stood back and far enough to see oh you know the person that I've become the person who's not a very nice person real self-centered piece of people are not real fun to be don't really have respect for themselves often well I mean there's there's so many different reasons why people are self-centered it's not sometimes they
(37:01) have too much respect for themselves and that was very complicated it's a very complicated issue I think the relationship right you know with with the self it's not something it's not so simple well this is just my journey yeah my journey was that I I I what I respect in others I was not doing myself okay maybe that's a better way of putting it uh so because I wasn't doing what I respected others I I was I had lost respect for myself you know and the thing is is that life is so busy and so you know with so many things
(37:40) happening there's no space in our life to take a step back and to reflect this is what I've been doing this is the path I'm taking without even realizing this is the path I'm taking so that's what happened with me you know so um I decided to go back and uh when I came back when I got when I came back from Indonesia and I had some of my friends were missionaries there they gave me a few books to read and things like that which were okay you know but uh when I came back I decided just start start back
(38:23) where where uh and just go back to the church and I did that for a little while yeah a little while and then I was doing hobby yoga I had one of my high school teachers had a said that I should do some yoga postures uh to help my public speaking and she was very interested in the the pranayama so uh so I had a little book called yoga made easy so I I and I did that in high school when I and the same thing pretty much uh what happened to my prisoner with doing hasanas yeah well what happened to me is that by doing just the asanas very
(39:11) abbreviated little set of asanas um I started feeling more balanced and my emotions started feeling more balanced and I felt uh more in control and More in control of my mind and more open to doing things you know more on top of my fears and anger and depression whatever it's just I felt much more balanced so and then I went away a little while and and I sort of got out of doing the Hatha but whenever I would get really tense and as an undergrad I would pull out my these asanas and I would do them and it would help help it would help me
(39:55) sleep at night it would help move out a lot of the tension and then and I took it to Indonesia with me and when I started doing uh uh awesomeness in Indonesia uh the same thing happened I started getting balance it started balancing my body my body was healthier everything was working better uh and so I I said well when I go back uh uh home I'm going to find a yoga Institute that I can go to and oh and this in this little book a yoga made easy they said it mentioned that uh this whole thing about uh they were talking
(40:45) about uh Enlightenment actually in self-realization but they said but it's very impractical nowadays it was talking about Kundalini and raising the Kundalini but it did it in a very it it sort of promised something that was that the great yogis had touched into you know and at the same time the when I was in Indonesia the the more peaceful I became the uh the more Clairvoyant I caught and I could I could look at somebody and know that the person was going to die soon and and then they would and then I would
(41:25) say oh my God you know and then uh and I would I would reach out to my friends in different places and I could sort of get the shadow of them and some of my friends the one there's one friend that I had that meditated and he had like this light around him and my other friends that I would reach out to their light was sort of turned inward down it wasn't like the guy that met it the one guy that meditated you know so the these things were uh uh so I thought well you know maybe if I tapped into some of these things I could
(42:09) develop some of these I could develop this part of my mind that seems to be expansive in this way so when I got back then I started getting cold feet when I got back and I said well maybe I'll just get a a class you know with with an individual teacher you know that teaches and maybe that's all I really need to do and then one of my friends at who was in the anthropology department said oh I'm going to these open classes at the integral yoga Institute why don't you come with me and I did and the first class I took was everything I
(42:53) was looking for it had the spirituality in it it had it just it just it it had the balance the asanas the the little bit of meditation at the everything a little bit of pranayama and so I said okay let me start let me I I and I felt like I needed a different group of friends other than the anthropology department I said well maybe these are the friends I'm looking for and I started to go to more classes and then I picked up a book called yoga Made Easy first I I think I read um uh I read a book you know the autobiography
(43:41) of a yogi I believe and then I I read a book by gurudev which was out of print now it was called success in yoga and other talks from Swami Sasha Ananda it's a very early book not very well edited and I read it I said well this is very nice but it just sounds like everything is yoga and and then well that's that's sort of the way it was written so uh you know and then that was too much to think everything yeah so I said so which should I do should I go more for the self-realization foundation with the
(44:18) dogonandas people or should I go with a um uh integral yoga Institute and um then and the thing is when I read autobiography of a yogi I got this feeling that I used to get when I would read the Bible as a child and uh it was just like someone took off the top of my head and there was this other Consciousness watching me and there was a point while I was reading autobah that I got that that feeling and I would get it when I would be reading certain certain books of the Bible not the whole Bible uh definitely the gospels of Jesus would do that to me
(45:04) the uh other stuff anything by by St Paul nothing never happened you know so certain things certain books would seem to have more of this this energy so I got that energy with with that book so I was thinking about it and then they said has just come back from uh around the world tour and he's at the Connecticut awesome and there's a group of us going up for the weekend do you want to come where were you living at this time I was living in New York in New York okay yeah yeah okay and I said yeah yeah so so I I
(45:47) made an arrangement to go to the Connecticut ashram and to stay there uh and overnight with this group and and this group of kids we ended up in the wrong side of Connecticut and um and so I said oh what I'll do is I I'm going to reach out I just want to be such a denied it just like I did with my friends and see if I could connect with them you know it's like my little city you know so I do this and then and we're at a gas station they're asking directions they're trying to figure out
(46:29) which way to go um and and I'm there sort of I'm serious I'm standing outside the car I think and then all of a sudden I I and I did what I always did I just focused at the base of my brain basically where the pituitary gland is and uh and and reached out toward gurudev and then suddenly I've told the story before and so a lot of people out there will know about it but uh suddenly there was this other Consciousness inside my mind and this consciousness was was like this bright it wasn't just
(47:12) a bright light it was like ten thousand suns and it didn't even fit into my brain it was so huge it was just like a small little bit of this huge Sun that was and it was just listening it was just pure consciousness and it was just listening and it was it was just like I felt like I I'd been caught you know with my my little antics you know my my minor city of reaching out I said hello good enough nothing you know just pure Consciousness watching me well I just thought I'd let you know you know we're going to be late
(48:09) and then nothing just watching pure consciousness and then I just then my mind shut up it did not want to say anything more and it's just like he watched me I watched him and then slowly his consciousness pulled away oh my God what was that and then we go we're there we're late and they're showing this this slideshow and um and then uh they they have all these this this entertainment it was around St Patrick's Day they had people doing the St Patrick they had people doing the Highland fling
(48:51) not Irish but close enough you know you know the people talking about saying giving a little talk on St Patrick and all these and then they said and then they had went through all these things and they said well gurudev uh we were hoping that you might talk tonight he said what do you want me to talk about he was he was under that one of those moods and he said well we talk about the Lotus and he makes his face like and I like haven't you heard that before we've been talking about this for the last year you
(49:31) know and you want me to talk about it again you know that was the implication he didn't say that he was just like he was very rough and then he he started he started going on he goes okay you want me to talk you people you always had to watch out when he said you people um uh you know I I written all these books and he started listening to know yourself you know beyond words you know he goes I'm like I got like this he goes and you never read them no matter what all these books that are written I've written you never read them
(50:11) you come to sad song you never listen whatever I tell you it doesn't matter you know just do whatever you want I don't care you can all get into the same bed together for all I care man woman the woman that I don't care just you know do whatever you want to do you don't want to listen to me so this is a so that's what he said and I thought oh maybe I better read one of another one of his books but but that was the way home but it was like oh my goodness you know it's just but it didn't upset me that he but it
(50:46) was just like uh but I but I but for some reason when I came out of that with is maybe I should read another one of his books so then I picked up to know yourself and everything in that book was everything I was looking for you know and I knew that he was my Guru by reading that book and I've told other people that that's what I do with my prisoners is I put that book into their hands and then they write me back and they say that their life is changing and they don't know what's happened but they're walking around the prison
(51:29) smiling again and so at that point uh I I went several times up to Connecticut and then um uh it was it was just like and I was being very active with the New York iyi and then um I had a really serious accident and the people at the New York ryi let me move in which sort of moved up you know my time framework of you know I was going to go out and be an anthropologist and get a job at a university or somewhere in the United States and and then eventually I write my dissertation you know get a good job and then eventually I might be
(52:22) able to move to the ashram without any plan in mind and all of a sudden I was in the New York Iowa and then I fell in love with paraman we got married we decided to move down to the uh the new Virginia ashram that was just opening and we moved to Charlottesville and then uh and then we moved down here and I've never looked back you know I did get my PhD but I don't I've never really taught as an anthropologist I've always taught as a yogi but I use the anthropology all the time thank you for sharing
(53:09) the story well actually just that last thing you said you use the end I don't want to miss that you use your anthropology background all the time or knowledge what's an example of how you use it well one thing I'm a trained linguist because I I studied linguistic anthropology so I've been I've been helpful uh in serving the ashram by um uh getting the ashram to use a standardized version of the International Phonetic Alphabet which is used for Sanskrit I've been able I helped with the uh
(53:49) uh uh helped not really create it was like premijuli and Swami Yogananda in France created the the text for the dictionary of Sanskrit names and I just uh sort of helped to edit it and get it get it to print well how about in your in in your relationships and just in your life is there anything from your anthropology that helps you in that regard absolutely one thing is just like there's different cultures you know everywhere everyone you know even subcultures in a way we have a subculture here uh um different people will join different
(54:35) subcultures and people from different countries coming here uh to understand where they're coming from you know how to speak to them how to talk to them uh it's uh even with the prison project I understand that there's a prison culture that is in existence you know and uh and in trying to understand the inmate within the context of a prison culture is very important so it's been very helpful with my prison work you can't just tell someone oh go do a good good deed for someone every day and good deeds are not respected in a prison
(55:21) in a prison environment you know so you can't just tell them that they have to work it out and eventually as they start working it out they figure out how to work out those those good deeds I can't tell them what to do and how to do it I wonder about this just even in terms of of the teachings um and you mentioned you know gurudev saying you know you're reading my book you listen to sat songs and uh you're not listening you know you're not really like taking it in um do you think that that that's true
(55:55) that he was right that that was happening um and if so you know why does that happen why can a person be engulfed in a set of teachings and it doesn't really infiltrate their being you know it kind of Still Remains more on the external why why does that happen well you know a lot of it has to do with consciousness the way we learn and the way we listen and and how much how much chatter there is in the mind the more you quote calm down the chatter the more space you have to bring in what's happening in the outside world
(56:38) I'm what enlightened Masters can do with their perception is just amazing you know they really they you know and the thing is it's the and and we would call it super Consciousness it's not super Consciousness it's our normal Consciousness without the chatter of the mind going on so we can tap in to a more expansive our more expansive abilities of using the mind um by uh like just quieting the mind more through meditation and uh and by a lot of it has to do with uh eliminating the negative thoughts of the
(57:29) mind because the net the negative thoughts the judgmental mind is what causes a lot of the whirlpools of the Mind the the fritis so the varieties if you want to quite if you can quiet down the fritis you start getting that expansive and then when the teacher tells you something uh uh you can hear him and sometimes there'll be a part one and a part two of what the teacher's telling you maybe a part three uh so you get one but your mind is already off with one so you're not hearing two and three you know so so are we listening
(58:14) and every student of a teacher is selective in what they learn and what they don't learn a lot of the selection has to do with our upbringing how we view the world how we view the studies how much we can take in I mean some people like they could go to a satsang with gurudev and then repeat you know point for point what he said at satsang you would talk to just about any other person in the room and what they would do you know you would ask um no answer what did Curative say about such and such when he answered the
(58:58) question about such and such and they will wait a minute I'm not quite sure I I don't I don't know it you know it would be very very hard put for most of the people in the room to actually come up with more than one or two uh answers of what he gave out of 20. you know and then and you could even remind them of certain things that he would say like oh I I should get the tape and listen to that because I don't remember that if that's the way our our ability to absorb things is and so it was a teacher there's a lot of
(59:39) repetition and he would do it and sometimes if you really want you will you'll hear him on the tape saying he'll repeat something three times you know let's say uh uh you know you know like he would say not only love love and serve you would say love and sir sir so he would do that he does that all the time if you listen to his tapes and uh uh so it's just like yeah and it's very selective and you know um people thought oh he was a guru and I had uh I had to follow whatever he had to say and because he was the guru I did
(1:00:27) whatever he had to say oh that was such a total nonsense if anybody said that everyone did what exactly what they wanted to do and you know yeah and they wanted yeah they wanted to serve him but at the same time if he asked them to do something they didn't want to do they were they were out the door they were they were doing something else they would sidestep it they would you know get away from it whatever you know I thought anyway that's that's just the way it was and I mean and you want to believe that you
(1:00:57) would be the most faithful of of students and follow everything he had to say but it's it everything that the guru had to say was not for everyone you know it's like when the guru speaks he's talking to many different levels of uh people at many different places and parts of life and so when he says one thing it might be for you you know if it appeals to you you take it and you use it but other things uh you have to spit out so they say that there's a certain type of of uh a disciple that's a cow interlegates in
(1:01:41) all the grass and along with the grass comes the the stones and and the twigs and other things and then the cow takes it in and then he he brings it up and he chews on it and each and as he chews on it sort of goes into bodyguard it would say and I say choose on it he will spit out some of those twigs and stones and what I like to say and then there's also the swan the swan has a coagulant and it's saliva to uh to curdle milk so the swan would put the the milk it's it's Beacon to the milk and it would
(1:02:22) start to drink and as it would drink it would spit out the water and it would it would it would curdle the milk and the CR and eat the curds all right so it's just like it wouldn't even take it in it would spit it even even taking it in it knows that one thing is not for them and the other thing is and it would swallow it was good and spit out what was bad this is just what we do too right but I would say with the with the cow he spits out the cow she spits out the the uh the rock a little pebble and then the chicken comes along
(1:02:59) all right and the chicken pecks that Pebble and swallows it and it goes into its gizzard and the kiss then and that the chicken uses the that that pebble to digest its food all right so it's just like some things uh he will say is for someone who's just a beginner another thing will be someone who's intermediate a third thing be only for the highest and it's just like for someone who's had all the other lessons so they can receive the highest but you unless that that that that beginner really isn't a beginner it has
(1:03:42) a lifetimes and lifetimes of of practice they're they're not going to I think it's even more complicated than that probably is you know like each each of us in different moments are taking in information right and being that cow and but I think this is such an important point because they're just just to see that this is what's happening this is what we do as people to be very clear on that because there's often I think some confusion around this within oneself like hey that doesn't feel right to me
(1:04:15) but it comes from a place where I've heard so many right things that come so is there something wrong with me for feeling that this is this one aspect is not right of wanting to put this aside right right right so ultimately it's I think there's no way around the fact that we we each get to decide and that's more than okay right yeah yeah yeah um and the truth is he would see gurudev would sometimes he would to one person he'd say one thing to another person he's hit exact opposite to
(1:04:50) but it's just like what's what's the right food for this this person well the right food for this person is hot spicy food the right food for this person is uh bland food you know it's not it's not just one thing one what one diet for one person everyone has their own Constitution and and he would encourage gurus understand that it's just like we we there's part of the human mind that wants to make everything into an absolute so often what the lessons that we are given are not absolute lessons but they're Stepping
(1:05:34) Stones on the path to enlightenment I think it you know it's such a service to share to Simply share right because and to be vulnerable about what's happening within within me not to to think that someone else has to do what works for me but at least by sharing I give them the opportunity to to either take it in if it feels right for themselves or to get more clear on what they don't want what you're saying what you're saying for me is not right but if we don't share if we don't speak what's
(1:06:07) happening inside what works hey I just have this spicy food and it really didn't serve well for me sometimes so someone else says okay like I had that similar experience too so we reinforce each other because we're social beings you know right yeah I so appreciate this time Lakshmi yeah you're sharing about your history and everything's just wonderful to hear thank you and I'm happy to be here thank you yeah I'm glad you're here too and um oh one thing I just wanted to admit I so appreciate
(1:06:36) your your emphasis on uh walking because I see you walking around the property all the time it it inspires me and the more time that goes by the more uh the more I'm starting to see whole uh the Holiness of of walking yeah well if you see Potterman and I walking we're usually half of our walk is it's it's like a walking it's like a walking meditation uh uh we often do chanting and Mantra reposition and other things and you the chanting in the Montreal petition bring you right into the moment
(1:07:17) it's like walking you're going to benefit from walking no matter what and human beings were designed to walk so it's it's really good to uh to take advantage of all of these this beautiful environment you know uh all of the oxygen that these plants and trees are breathing out for us to and and we can serve them by breathing out carbon dioxide for them you know it's a great uh great opportunity and uh and you see you see animals deer and one thing if you if you walk and you chant Om Shanti to the animals
(1:08:04) they they will become tame around you I used to try that sometime thank you thanks for listening if you've enjoyed this content and think others might as well please feel free to share and subscribe